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Messages - MountainWoods

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General Discussion / Re: Towns / Cities
« on: May 13, 2013, 09:28:39 AM »
I didn't figure out why.  But the information in the 2 segment US States and Counties map file is redundant with the information in the topos.  It doesn't have towns or cities, just state and county boundaries.  I went ahead and uninstalled it.  As long as the unit shows the cities in the Geographical Features page, it'll work for me.

General Discussion / Re: Towns / Cities
« on: May 07, 2013, 06:40:19 PM »
Got it.  That renders the search for cities as unavailable; but searching for Geographical Points does the trick.  Makes sense.  Not a bid deal either.  How many times have I had to search for a city on a handheld unit?  Maybe once: just to make sure that the new maps were showing - ha!

The maps I got with my Legend were on a DVD back in 2005.  I remember that it was annoying that they did not have a way to copy the data files to the hard drive (like DeLorme's Street Atlas has always had).  They expected MapSource to read the data from the DVD every time it was used.  Yuck!

But, again, being computer savvy, I copied the data files onto my HD, used regedit to find where MapSource was looking for its data (e:\ I think), and changed it to point to the directory on the HD -- crossing my fingers that the longer directory name wouldn't cause an internal filename buffer overrun -- and it worked.  I did the same thing when I later upgraded to this PC I'm on.

(Even more annoying: the Walmart salesman lied to me and said that the Legend could plug into a USB port.  I was flabbergasted when I got home and found that it needed a serial port; at a time when serial ports were already archaic.  I hadn't had a PC with a serial port for years.  I had to purchase a serial to USB converter to use the blasted Legend.  I figured that the Legend was already supposed to be just a legend.)

Last year I installed BaseCamp whilst I still had the old Legend, and BaseCamp recognized the data files also.  I remember talking to Garmin very early on, perhaps before I even bought the 20 or just after, can't remember which.  I asked them if I could reuse the maps I had with the Legend.  I doubt that I told them that I was planning to install all of the files on the unit at the same time (since it didn't occur to me that that might break a limit).  Anyway, like you say, they may have been thinking about permissions to reuse the same maps, rather than capabilities.

Still, it's funny that they didn't tell me that not all of the segments would fit on the 20 (inspite of the files themselves fitting).  I knew that there were many segments in a given file, but I never new what the limit was or, indeed, if there even was a limit.  Boyd's explanation was the first time the light bulbs started lighting up.  "Of course.  Too many segments!"

When I plugged in the eTrex 20 for the first time and brought up BaseCamp, it seems (if I remember right) that it "noticed" that the unit only had the base map and that I had more data files present, so it asked me if I wanted to install them.  Gleefully and naively I figured "Why not?"  Without having had a technical discussion on segments and the limits of the unit, who would have done otherwise?  Seemed great to me!  Live and Learn.

Now I realize that I should have used the Customize to copy just areas of the country that I was interested in at the time.  But even then, neither MapInstall nor the unit warns you that you've got too many segments being copied over.  Duh!

General Discussion / Re: Towns / Cities
« on: May 07, 2013, 01:47:58 PM »
The US States and Counties shows up in MapSource and in MapInstall, but not in BaseCamp's Maps --> Map Product list (or toolbar dropdown).  Odd...

Answered my own question.  Went into MapSource and selected all of the segments on all of the maps I had downloaded so far from this site, and it was less than 2000 segments.  Cool.

I wonder if MapInstall tells you how many segments you're about to download.  I'm not in a position to use it just now.  Anyway, 'twould be nice if it told you that.  'Twould even be better if it queried the unit for its maximum capacity (or looked it up in a table) and let you know if you're going overboard.

I can understand why the old topos had such a high number of very small segments.  An annoying problem with the old Legend is when I'd be getting ready for an outing and I'd be pulling my hair wondering if I should select that segment or this one over here.  Where am I going to wonder into?  How can I fit this all in 8 Meg?  If the segment sizes would have been large, it would have made the decision really bad!

As overall maps, I really liked those old topos, even though they aren't detailed.  It was nice that they covered half of the country, instead of 1 state at a time.  But they'd have to be combined somehow to be usable any more.  And I doubt that Garmin's going to do that gratis!  And no one else can, because the maps are theirs.  Oh well.  I can still view them in BaseCamp.

Boy, I haven't used MapSource in a year.  I didn't realize that the maps I'd downloaded from GPSFileDepot would also show in there, but it makes sense in hindsight!

Sure enough, from the old Legend topos, just the eastern US contains 2563 sections -- which were split in half as US Topo - East and US Topo - East 2 when I went to BaseCamp.   Here's what I was trying to stuff into the eTrex 20 (without realizing it):
2563 segments Eastern US (2 map files)
2662 segments Western US (2 map files)
1425 segments Alaska (1 map file)
0027 segments Hawaii (1 map file)
6677 segments Total

I'm willing to bet that that analysis is 100% the problem.  It would explain why it seemed eratic as to which maps were showing or not, such as the fact that Alaska & Hawaii weren't showing even though all 6 map files were in the unit.  Even my trick of renaming the files may have just caused the unit to load the maps in a different order, finally picking up motopo11 before trying to load those old maps; and thus having it "work" partially - just missing some of the old Legend topo maps.  Makes complete sense to me.

Odd thing is, I remember when I got the eTrex 20 I called Garmin support near KC and asked them if I could just reuse the maps from the old Legend and they said it was fine.  Ha!  It's odd that they didn't tell me about the max 4000 segments.  I imagine that I could run into the same problem with maps from this site if I get too greedy, unless the segment sizes are very, very large compared to those old topos.  Guess I can check those in MapSource too.

Well, as an IT Architect, I often have to deal with folks who complain about programs being too slow; so I understand the importance of perceived versus actual performance.  I may have been wrong about the zoom in/zoom out performance increase.  But I can definitely state that starting up the unit doesn't take as long.  And no wonder!

Thanks again.  I'm glad that you knew about the internal limitations of the firmware.  Cleared a lot of mystery.

General Discussion / Re: Towns / Cities
« on: May 07, 2013, 12:46:42 PM »
Actually, I noticed that the topo does have the town name. I just need to look for the little lime diamond, on both BaseCamp and the unit.  That's good to know.

I installed the US States and Counties map, but I don't see any difference in BaseCamp.  (I haven't installed it on the eTrex 20 yet.)  It's not in the map drop-down.   But in case, as an overlay, it isn't supposed to be, I panned over to a county boundary, which is in the topo from this site (motopo11), but when I chose the Global Map, the county boundary doesn't show.  In other words, it doesn't add anything to Garmin's base map, and it isn't needed for topos from this site, because the boundaries are already there.

On the eTrex 20, if I use Where To? --> Cities, I get a bunch of entries that begin
map created with http:/
and are truncated at that point.  If I click into one of them it only gives me a tiny bit more:
map created with http://c
and leaves the arrow pointing at the center of a map section from the downloaded topo.  That is "Cities" are actually references to the map sections, not cities.
But that's OK.  If I use Where To? --> Geographic Points --> Manmade Places (or All Categories), I do find the nearest towns/cities in that.

General Discussion / Towns / Cities
« on: May 07, 2013, 09:54:58 AM »
I really love this site and the maps.  I've downloaded a bunch of them that I will regularly use.  I was wondering about one thing.

I noticed that the topos often do not have town names.  It's not a big deal, because I'll generally use a physical map or my car GPS to get where I'm going and/or know where I'm at.  But I was wondering if either
  • There is something that I'm missing (perhaps a specific zoom level?)
  • Is there an overlay with just city names and/or other government data (county boundaries, etc.)?

In any case it's not a big deal.  But I was just wondering.
Thanks a million!

GPSr Units / Re: ETREX 20 Thembstick
« on: May 07, 2013, 09:49:31 AM »
I generally don't have issues with the up, down, right and left.  However, when I go to click IN, to select, it is rather flaky.  I'll hear the tactal click, but nothing happens.  An example is when I turn off the car engine and the unit is plugged into the 12v outlet.  The unit always asks whether you want to keep it on or turn it off, and you have 30 seconds to answer.  I sometimes have to click on the stay on several times -- each time with an audible click -- before the darn unit agrees with my choice!

By the way, that is one feature that needs an option!  I would love an option in the settings that's something like:
When power disconnected:
  • Ask to turn off or leave on (default)
  • Always leave on
  • Always turn off
Perhaps I'll request this of Garmin...

GPSr Units / Re: Organizing POI's on Etrex 20
« on: May 07, 2013, 09:40:58 AM »
I see that this hasn't been answered yet.  I've had my eTrex 20 for about a year, so I have some familiarity with it, though I cannot be called an expert.

I don't think that the 20 itself has a way to group objects (waypoints, tracks, geocaches, etc.).  I don't see that anywhere in the unit's user interface.

However, in BaseCamp you can make list folders and lists to organize objects on the local PC database (not on the unit).  I do this quite a bit.  I always make sure that BaseCamp's database on the PC has everything that has come from my GPSr (e.g. tracks or waypoints) in an appropriate list.  That way, if I wish, I can completely wipe the user data from the 20, then grab everything within a list and drag it to the unit.

Yes, that requires using the PC to organize things and the connection to the unit to give it things of interest for this trip, outing, today, or whatever.  But with no such feature on the unit itself, that's all that I can think of.

Just wanted to say that I think this site is absolutely wonderful!  You have been extremely helpful.  And of course, the value of the maps is priceless.   Keep up the excellent work.

BTW, for other folks affected, the old eTrex Legend topos do cause troubles with an eTrex 20 (and perhaps others).  Since I took them off my GPSr, the unit comes up faster and responds to requests (such as zoom in and zoom out, etc.) faster.

To avoid issues with Garmin's MapInstall program deleting existing maps before re-installing old and install new maps, here is what I do:

  • At a command line I change directory (cd) to the drive on my unit (or MicroSD card, as the case may be).
  • Change directory to the Garmin directory.
  • If this is a DOS prompt command line session, then I do the following:
    ren *.img *.old
    If this is a Linux, UNIX, or cygwin prompt, I would do this:
    for FILE in *.img
    do mv "$FILE" "${FILE%.img}.old"

    This prevents MapInstall from pre-deleting the installed maps, because it cannot "see" them.  (Don't forget to use the double quotes on the shell lines as shown above, in case files have a space in their name!)
  • From MapInstall's Customize window, I uncheck all the maps that are already installed (and currently renamed).  This will prevent it from re-installing maps that are already there (but renamed).  Just check the new maps that need to be installed.
  • After the install has completed, do the following on the command line:
    From a DOS prompt (in the drive's Garmin directory):
    ren *.old *.img
    Or on Linux, UNIX or cygwin:
    for FILE in *.old
    do mv "$FILE" "${FILE%.old}.img"

    To "unhide" the previously installed maps.
(You may want to copy/paste those UNIX shell commands into shell scripts located somewhere in your command PATH to avoid a lot of typing.)
This is a bit of a pain, but it saves gobs of time when installing new maps.  I have been doing this several times now and it works great.

Of course, if you download all the maps you want/need and install them en masse it'll also save effort, because you don't have to keep doing the above for each set.  ;)

FYI, you were probably right the first time.  There is some bad aura about those original eTrex Legend topos.  I finally ignored them and downloaded 6 topos of states that I'm interested in (for now) from this wonderful site, and the eTrex 20 was able to display all 6 of them in the Setup Map --> Select Map page.  Since I'm a little skeptical, I'll probably download a 7th map and see what happens.

Thanks for all of your help.  Keep up the good work.

...  Edited: The following may be related to having old eTrex Legend topo maps on an eTrex 20, which was causing multiple issues.

I don't know if it is related, but there have been times when I've downloaded 32 geocaches, but only 17 of them showed up on the unit.  I remember deliberately driving to a different location to see if it was only showing the nearest 17 of the 32, but it still didn't show the closest GCs.  I plugged the unit back in and BaseCamp showed that there were 32 GCs on the eTrex 20.  But try as one might, the unit itself would not show all 32.

Ever since then, I've only ever downloaded about 16 GCs at a time.  I'm always envious when I hear other folks talk about downloading a Pocket Query full of GCs - like 200 - to go geocaching.  My eTrex 20 could never do that.  It'd show 200 of them on the unit when plugged into BaseCamp, but no where near that many on the unit alone.

I originally had an old eTrex Legend that camp with those rudimentary topos.  Come to think of it.  There were 4 of them (East, West, Alaska, and Hawaii), but I don't see either Alaska or Hawaii in the list, even though MapInstall shows them as being on my eTrex 20.

I just put a new, formatted MicroSD card in my 20 and, from BaseCamp, I right clicked the SD card and did an Install Maps on SD Card, which brought up Garmin's MapInstall.  It successfully downloaded the motop11.img file to the SD card (in the Garmin directory).  Then I did an Eject on the GPSr, restarted it, and sure 'nuff - NO mention of anything but those old topos I brought over from the Legend in the Map Setup.

I haven't done it yet, but I'll bet that if I rename the motopo11.img file on the SD card to gmapsupp.img, then the Missouri topo will show up (with the odd name).

AHHH.  I found it.  It doesn't say so in the tutorial (because the Garmin units are so very different, as has been stated earlier), but I needed to rename the motopo11.img to gmapsupp.img that has been mentioned multiple times here.
That means that the eTrex 20 only recognizes one "supplemental" map at a time, unlike some of the more costly units.

That's only a minor annoyance (with the device, not this site!), because it means that if I cross into a different state, I have to hook the eTrex 20 up to the computer and download that state's topo map into the GPSr and rename it to gmapsupp.img.  Or just continue to use the less-detailed topos that came with the unit when outside of the current gmapsupp.img territory.   :P

Odd thing is that the name of the new map wasn't Missouri Topo or anything like that, but: Dyersburg (w), Sikeston, Cape Girardeau.  Apparently that is the description that was used in the meta data for this wonderful map by whosumever made it.
Thanks for the great map!!

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