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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: unclejosh on October 16, 2013, 07:58:20 AM

Title: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: unclejosh on October 16, 2013, 07:58:20 AM
Guys,

Would appreciate any help here:

I can load selective map quadrants and observe them on my Garmin Oregon 450 if I use the older version of CA Topo.

When I send CA Topo 2011 in its entirety or even just one quad, the map does not show on the unit, but it does show in the system file as a map that I can enable or disable.

I have had a similar issue with TX Topo.

I can send to either unit or SD card and I still cannot see.

Whatever name I give it does not make a difference either....

Any help appreciated.....

Josh
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Seldom on October 16, 2013, 10:36:20 AM
One cause for this can be two map tiles with the same 8 digit map name.  Have you tried loading only the tiles from the CA or TX topos to your GPSr?  That's a way to start the debug.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: maps4gps on October 16, 2013, 12:49:18 PM
You need to be at the location of the data you sent to the GPSr or zoom to that location.
Zoom in to about the 500' level; might also be a profile issue.
Unlikely the tiles would have the same name as I use the lon and lat as part of the tile/segment name (number).
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: unclejosh on October 23, 2013, 08:01:48 AM
Guys,

Thanks for the replies

This is what I did in response to your replies:

1. Selected 2 tiles only from CA Topo 2011 - 2 areas where I reside and hike.
2. Sent the two tiles to SD card. Renamed file montsj.img on SD card
3. Disabled Old CA Topo on Garmin
4. Confirmed two new CA tiles/maps were enabled on Garmin
5. The name of the two tiles on the Oregon are "Monterey (wn) San Jose (ws)" These are the autonames given by Map Source. Unlike old Ca Topo, there are no numbers assigned to the tiles. I do not know if this matters, that is the format of the tile name.
6. Went outside, locked, and still no topo maps with high magnification

I tried the above multiple times to no avail.

Other notes:
All my maps reside on the SD card.
There are two instances of the old CA Topo with identical tile numbers that show on the Garmin. However, there is only one .img file on the Garmin that represents the mapset. Not sure how to cure this either.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or insights.......

Josh



Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Seldom on October 23, 2013, 11:25:57 AM
Just free associating here.  You didn't mention most of it, so maybe it will help.

Have you tried using BaseCamp?

I assume since you can select them on your OR they are in the \Garmin folder on your card and are NOT in the \Garmin\CustomMaps folder.  CustomMaps is for DIY raster graphics.

I don't recognize the (wn) and (ws) in "Monterey (wn) San Jose (ws)"  did MapSource create those names?  MapSource sends a single gmapsupp.img file to the GPSr or card.  You would need to rename that in order to keep it from being overwritten, or send all maps as a single gmapsupp.img.

All map tiles have an 8 digit name that is compiled into them along with the readable name of the tile, like "Monterey".  You can't change the 8 digit name without re-compiling the map.

I don't own an OR 450, but my OR300 has some features in Setup>Map>Advanced Map Setup that you might want to experiment with.  Like setting detail to maximum.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Red90 on October 24, 2013, 08:51:43 AM
If you still have the old map on the GPS, even disabled, it will mess up viewing the new map if they use the same tile code numbers.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Seldom on October 24, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
If you still have the old map on the GPS, even disabled, it will mess up viewing the new map if they use the same tile code numbers.
They messed me up when I had the problem.  I had two tiles with the same lat/lon based name.  One used the coordinates of the southwest corner, the other used the coordinates of the southeast corner.  Neither one showed up.  Sort of remember that one was selectable.

unclejosh, have you tried deleting all maps from your 450 and then just sending the CA Topo 2011?
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: unclejosh on October 25, 2013, 08:22:30 AM
Thanks for Replies Guys,

Update:

1. Confirming: all maps loaded from mapsource onto SD card
2. Confirming : No maps in any files on garmin unit internal memory
3. I tried this: removed all maps from SD card except Garmin NA 2011. Confirmed by looking in map set-up in unit. Then I sent a variety of CA TOPO 11 tiles to card. Zooming in, maps not observed, no change from before. Map shows as CA Topo 11 in Setup as enabled. Renaming on SD card has no effect.
4. CA Topo 11: Monterey (wn) San Jose (ws)"  are typical map/tile names that show up in MapSource and on SD card and in Garmin map set-up. There are never any 8 digit numbers associated with any CA Topo 11 tiles. I have selected them all to double check. In contrast, Old CA Topo shows the 8 digit numbers for the tiles in all circumstances, and I can always see those maps..... hmmmmm. could this be the problem? Not sure



unclejosh
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Seldom on October 25, 2013, 01:40:13 PM
There are never any 8 digit numbers associated with any CA Topo 11 tiles.
You just can't see them because they aren't the listed name that MapSource/BaseCamp shows for the tile unless the map author has assigned it to be, and they may not be the file name of the tile's IMG file.

Download and install JAVAWA GMTK.  When you run it it will list the maps on your system.  Select one of the maps and click the "Info" button.  GMTK will then list the tiles and you'll be able to see the readable names as well as the 8 digit names.

If you have both California maps on your computer and they have name conflicts they will display orange, and you will get a warning message.  Having name conflicts on your computer isn't a problem, but as I have said above, having name conflicts in your GPSr is a problem. 
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Indrid Cold on October 27, 2013, 06:15:34 PM

3. I tried this: removed all maps from SD card except Garmin NA 2011. Confirmed by looking in map set-up in unit. Then I sent a variety of CA TOPO 11 tiles to card. Zooming in, maps not observed, no change from before. Map shows as CA Topo 11 in Setup as enabled. Renaming on SD card has no effect.

 In contrast, Old CA Topo shows the 8 digit numbers for the tiles in all circumstances, and I can always see those maps..... hmmmmm. could this be the problem? Not sure
Your "Garmin NA 2011" map is most likely covering the CA TOPO 2011, the reason you think you are seeing the older version CA map is the contours are in a transparent overlay and are overlaying your Garmin CNNA 2011, where as the roads and hydro data is under the Garmin CNNA 2011. You have to disable your Garmin CNNA 2011 to see the CA TOPO 2011. I have the CA TOPO 2011 installed on a Oregon 450 and it works just fine. This would likely be the issue with the Texas TOPO also, your Garmin CNNA 2011.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: maps4gps on November 06, 2013, 09:46:02 AM
In CA Topo 11 and most of my other mapsets as a help users I choose to use meaningful names like Monterey (wn) San Jose (ws) for the quads/tiles/segments rather than some form of long/lat or 'sequential numbers as many mapsets do.  The .img files are eight numerals.
These names use the 30x60' 100k USGS quad names for 30x60' areas, with (w) or (e) appended if the area is 30x30' or (en) etc. if 15x30'.  Quad/segment size being determined by the amount of data, so as to keep a somewhat uniform .img file size.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: popej on November 06, 2013, 11:15:45 AM
Garmin maps, maybe with exception of City Navigator, use map numbers that are derived form FID number.

Formula is:  base of MapID = 2048*FID + 6316032
Or in hex:  base of MapID = 0x800*FID +0x60600

A map can use up to 2048 sequential numbers, starting from calculated value. I suggest to use this formula for own maps, this could limit compatibility problems.

There is some support for map ID in GMapTool, you can check for duplicated values and change map ID inside an img file.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Boyd on November 06, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
That is pretty cool Popej.  8) Just to be sure I understand, if my FID is 12345, then

12345 x 2048 = 25282560
 and
25282560 + 6316032 = 31598592

So my map tiles would be numbered

31598592
31598593
31598594
   :
   :
31600640 (max)

I have a logical order of tile numbers that I have always used and wouldn't really want to change that 3-digit sequence. I would currently number the tiles like:

12345001
12345002
12345003
   :
   :
12345305

But using Garmin's standard, as long as I didn't have more than 640 tiles I could number them like this, since it falls inside the 2048 "block"

31600001
31600002
31600003
   :
   :
31600305

But none of this helps if somebody else has also chosen a FID of 12345.  ;)
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: popej on November 06, 2013, 12:28:23 PM
Your calculations are correct, except that maximum number for your FID is 31600639 (calculated value + next 2047 make together 2048 numbers).

It is easier to check in Internet if FID number is already used, then to look for used map numbers (I usually call them map ID). Unfortunately proposed formula is rather unknown, so probably there is no gain in using it yet, but still it facilitate decision what map ID to pick.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: babj615 on November 09, 2013, 12:56:26 AM
Thank you, Popej, this is fantastic information!
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Indrid Cold on November 09, 2013, 10:37:39 AM
Thank you, Popej, this is fantastic information!
How so, did the op finally disable his City Navigator and discover his TOPO maps?
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: babj615 on November 09, 2013, 11:34:14 AM
Thank you, Popej, this is fantastic information!
How so, did the op finally disable his City Navigator and discover his TOPO maps?

Well now, I don't think we will know that until the OP tells us.

Meanwhile, another user posted some very useful information, and I thanked them for it.

Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: Indrid Cold on November 09, 2013, 01:50:01 PM
Well now, I don't think we will know that until the OP tells us.

Meanwhile, another user posted some very useful information, and I thanked them for it.
Actually we know because we took an Oregon 450 and loaded the very same maps as the op and saw the issue the op described. Everything else is off topic.
Title: Re: Help needed: Certain Maps sent to Garmin Oregon don't show on unit, others do
Post by: bonzm1031 on November 16, 2013, 07:01:31 AM
You need to be at the location of the data you sent to the GPSr or zoom to that location.
Zoom in to about the 500' level; might also be a profile issue.
Unlikely the tiles would have the same name as I use the lon and lat as part of the tile/segment name (number).


I agree on the profile issue.  I have the same Oregon and have had the same issues.  Change the profile and try to pull the map up, mine worked that way.  Garmin confirmed issues with profiles quite some time ago but no fix was provided.