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Author Topic: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads  (Read 7301 times)

zul

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Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« on: October 01, 2012, 07:32:34 AM »
The Arizona map found on this site is excellent!  Thx to the person who took the time.  It includes many hidden and unknown trails in my area, so it is great to have those foot trails on the GPS map.

Earlier this year, the Coconino Nat Forest has closed about 30% of it's roads.  Fear not, these were frivilious roads that were not needed.  I utilize the Nat Forest in many, many ways and the 'closures' have not affected my use and enjoyment thus far.

What has changed is the number of signs.  Many roads (in the past) were not marked or signed.  Now they are posted and signed.  The FS has issued a paper map as well as a digital map with updated roads.  As I recall, the map doesn't include topo.

<< I have the link to the GPS file but cannot post it ?? >> site restriction.

So, for my long winded question:  Is it possible for this map to 'overlay' onto the already super Arizona map?  I don't know if this is simple or downright impossible.

???

 

maps4gps

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2012, 07:59:56 AM »
I have not seen one myself; however, the leader of this past weekends 4x4 trip had just acquired said digital and paper maps for the area of Colorado around Breckenridge we were in.  The FS data showed many trails which were supposed to be open for motorized use which on the ground were signed as non-motorized and had earthen berms and cut tree limbs blocking them; and conversly trails with no restrictins on the ground were shown on the FS files as non-motorized.

The digital data obtained was in .gpx format and can be displayed on the GPSr - MAYBE.
My OR300 would display the FS .gpx data (and also the track being recorded) at some zoom display levels and not at others.  This appears to be a(nother) flaw in the OR300 as my 76csx displayed tracks properly.  Hopefully your GPSr will also.

It was mentioned by one member of our group that the FS paper maps did NOT have contour info and were near useless in helping you know your location and what was around you.

To help eliminate spam posts, this site requires you to have made 3 or 4 post before you can post links, etc.

Boyd

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 08:56:23 AM »
Is it possible for this map to 'overlay' onto the already super Arizona map?  I don't know if this is simple or downright impossible.

What GPS are you using? It makes a difference. The newer Garmin handhelds provide something called "custom maps" that are easy to make yourself. It is not possible to overlay this type of map on another may, but it will "underlay" any vector map such as the Arizona topo. In other words, it will form a background behind the topo map.

See: http://www.garmin.com/us/products/onthetrail/custommaps

These units are compatible:

Dakota
Oregon
Colorado
GPSMAP 62 series
GPSMAP 78 series
Edge 800
Montana series
Rino 6xx series
Astro 320 series
eTrex 20 and 30

There are other ways to make a transparent overlay map, but it involves a lot more effort. You would actually have to trace all the roads and features that you want from the FS map to create vector objects. Probably the simplest way to do that would be Mapwel: http://www.mapwel.net/

Seldom

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2012, 11:40:38 AM »
zui, I know the FS in Utah provides PDFs of it's road networks.  If you could get one of those and had the proper software to convert it to JPG it might be the easiest way to get a CustomMap. 

leszekp

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 12:16:07 PM »
Here's the link to the Coconino National Forest map page:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/landmanagement/projects/?cid=stelprdb5356224

The Garmin map was created using MapWel. Loading the .img file into GPSMapEdit, looks like it uses a custom TYP file. It might be possible to pull out the road data individually and convert that into a transparent overlay, but it would be a pain. They're pretty good maps as-is, but they don't have contour lines or other features.

I contacted the Coconino when the maps were first released, and got a copy of a preliminary geodatabase file that contained most of the information; this could be used to create transparent overlays (separate out the individual components, convert them to shapefiles, then make a Garmin vector map). However, the version I got was a preliminary one, they pulled all links to the GIS data off the website, and I haven't yet asked for a more recent copy of it.

They had told me they might issue GeoTiffs of these maps, but they're currently only available in PDF format. You could always convert them to Tiffs, then convert them to Garmin Custom Maps format.

leszekp

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 12:24:21 PM »
Whoops. Just checked the "Android" data, and the zip files are actually GeoTiffs of the travel maps; these can be converted easily to Custom Map format.

-Oz-

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 03:15:31 PM »
I'd love updated vector data so I could update the vector map itself.
Dan Blomberg
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Seldom

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 05:52:22 PM »
Got this page Googling:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r3/landmanagement/gis/?cid=stelprdb5209303

Kaibab's available at the top of the same page.  I've used the north half of Kaibab on my routable map.

leszekp

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 10:52:18 AM »
Unfortunately, the road data listed on that page is out of date.

Seldom

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 11:27:09 AM »
I realize 4/15/2012 is the date for the PDF map, but how can you tell the date of the data it came from?

maps4gps

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 11:48:00 AM »
As the 2nd and 3rd line in that link states: 'A link to the FGDC compliant metadata is provided for each dataset'. The metadata file whould be included in the zipped shape file package.  It can be long (and looks boring), however, if done properly it will have info on sources, scale, dates, how the data was processed, etc. 

Do not be surprised if you find some of the data is not nearly as good or usable as it appeared before reading the metadata.  I know of one mapset where state DOT data was used for transportation.  The metadata for it only stated it was a shape 'dump' from their mainframe database done 8 years earlier - no way of knowing how up to date the mainframe data was, what scale it was at, nor how it was collected, etc. 

Seldom

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 11:59:22 AM »
I can find metadata on the shapefile dataset, but nothing like that on the PDF distribution page.  My question was if you could tell the PDF was created from something newer than the FS was distributing as shapefiles.  leszekp seemed to indicate that in his post.  My real question is how to tell if any shapefiles are more current than those that are listed.

And when looking at data quality/currency, what dates in the metadata indicate that?  There are lots of dates, and some go back to 1950, but the Metadata date in the shapefiles I linked to is:
Metadata_Date: 20101101 .
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 12:10:26 PM by Seldom »

maps4gps

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 12:32:56 PM »
I would guess the data is upkept daily in an ESRI geodatabase.  Shape files, .gpx, pdf, and printed use maps would be derived from the geodatabase files.  How often and if all four are done at the same time and stay in sync would be a question for each FS office to answer. I doubt that this would all be done every time in each office as it would supposed to be.

Unfortunately, a lot of the metadata items were (are?) optional and often do not get included, and/or included at the level we would like so that we can judge the usability of a data set. 

leszekp

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Re: Coconino Nat Forest, AZ updated roads
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 11:02:04 AM »
I emailed the Forest guy in charge of the new compliance rules in April 2012 - he indicated that they were in the process of finalizing the maps to correct some errors. So if the date on the data is before 4/2012, then the data isn't current.

 

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