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eTrex 20 vs Smartphone for trail groups

Started by PHeller, November 15, 2011, 11:06:33 AM

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PHeller

Every year I check up on the state of Garmin custom map making to see where it stands. I haven't made much progress, mostly because I moved from where I was building trails to a new area with new trails to build.

I want to start planning for next year, but I still need a GPS.

Smartphones are getting more accurate, and the ability to move data from a computer to a smartphone is quick and easy.

What I want to do:
1) Layout and design a trail in ArcMap 10, using 2ft contours, slope models, and drainage/watershed profiles. Destribute map on Google Maps, as images on the club website, and use for parks planning meetings.
2) Be able to view the designed trail on a handleheld device, take into the field, and accurately flag the proposed trail. This includes being able to view property lines, points of interests, roads, streams, and proposed trails in vector format. I need to see layers and be able to turn them on or off!
3) Build trail, incorporating any changes into the GPS unit using a track feature.
4) Bring in tracking data to show area the "actual" new trail layout.
5) Revise public use maps.

In the past, making a layered map was very intensive and required multiple programs some of which cost a pretty penny. I never went that route.

ESRI makes an ArcMap Mobile that will display maps on a smartphone, but its a bit clunky at this point.

So, are there any new easy way of making custom layered maps from multiple shapefiles?

Indrid Cold


PHeller

No idea.

The maps on the handheld dont need 2ft contours, but I use them in trail planning.

Boyd

I'd pick the eTrex in a side by side drop test onto a rock or into a stream.  ;D

Everything you describe can be done with any of the newer generations of Garmin handhelds. It's pretty straightforward and there are a variety of tools you can use. Cost is another factor... many of us use Globalmapper which is relatively expensive but very powerful. Download the free trial here: http://globalmapper.com/

It does not directly create Garmin format maps, but makes .mp files which are an intermediate format that you feed to the cgpsmapper compiler: http://cgpsmapper.com/

Depending on what you need to do, Globalmapper could be overkill. Many people here also use GPSMapedit: http://www.geopainting.com/

Then there's Mapwel which is an all-in one program that includes editor and compiler. It might do everything you need as it can import shapefiles and export Garmin map files: http://mapwel.eu/

On the newer Garmin units you can also use "custom maps" which are .kmz files containing raster imagery in the form of .jpg's. Most models, including the eTrex have a relatively small limit to the size of this kind of map 10,240 x 10,240 pixels (or any dimensions with the same area).

For your application, you might make a raster image as a background (maybe aerial imagery), then layers of transparent vector maps.

Boyd

Quote from: Indrid Cold on November 15, 2011, 12:02:29 PM
2ft contours? What is your target scale?

Contour interval is something that I spent awhile pondering recently. I have the excellent 1/9 arc second LIDAR DEM available for much of Southern NJ, which is very flat (200 feet is called a "mountain"). Here are a few images from a study I did of 2 ft vs 5 ft intervals (USGS 24k map uses a 10' interval). I settled on 5 ft in the end. More info and discussion here: http://forums.njpinebarrens.com/threads/boyds-map-of-the-pines-beta-available.5103/page-7








Seldom

When you say design and build trails, does this mean that your final product is a drawing, or do you need a chainsaw and shovel?

What kinds of GPSrs will your members have?  All the solutions you'll find on this site are limited to Garmins.

Global Mapper exports to a number of other formats, but I doubt that anyone here would know much about the necessary compilers.

When you say revise public use maps does this mean that you are updating a data source maintained by a government or other public entity?

What format do you plan to distribute your data in, raster graphics or track logs?

PHeller

Quote from: Seldom on November 15, 2011, 03:30:32 PM
When you say design and build trails, does this mean that your final product is a drawing, or do you need a chainsaw and shovel?
My goal is to provide a product for which a trail group can say "this will be the first trail we build, this will be the second trail we build, this is its relationship to the property boundaries and existing features" because municipalities LOVE this. (I work for local government).

Additionally, I'm also one of the club members out there building trail, riding, and enjoy the fruits of my labor.
Quote
What kinds of GPSrs will your members have?  All the solutions you'll find on this site are limited to Garmins.
Most of them will have Garmins or Google Maps on a smartphone.
Quote
When you say revise public use maps does this mean that you are updating a data source maintained by a government or other public entity?
I want to be able to offer maps for us by clubs, cycling groups, and other non-profit organizations that can show the "master plan" maps, but easily be able to change those planning maps into "final maps". I can do this already with ArcGIS.
Quote
What format do you plan to distribute your data in, raster graphics or track logs?
I'd like the maps for handhelds to be raster maps. IE, its there when you turn the GPS on and it doesn't go away unless you want it to.

Boyd

Quote from: PHeller on November 16, 2011, 06:58:08 AMI'd like the maps for handhelds to be raster maps. IE, its there when you turn the GPS on and it doesn't go away unless you want it to.

Why do you think a raster map (vs a vector map) would behave this way? You said you wanted separate map layers that could be turned on and off. That implies the use of vector maps with transparent backgrounds. See my earlier post, I made a number of suggestions that should accomplish what you want.

I you want raster imagery on Garmin, you will need one of their newer models (like the eTrex 20). A partial list of these devices would be the Oregon, Colorado, Dakota, Montana, GPSMap 62 and GPSMap 78 series. Older Garmin models (which are still very popular) like the GPSMap 60csx, eTrex Vista and Legend cannot use raster imagery. Also note the limitations of raster imagery size that I posted above. The Montana series is unique in that it supports a much larger map (500 map tiles vs 100).

PHeller

I've tried learning all of this before and its a bit confusing.

So older units can support vector maps, well...I've used vector maps on my 60Csx. Using MNDNR Garmin I would take "proposed trail" shapefiles, load them onto the GPS, and roll. However, this got real confusing when I had property boundaries, roads, parking areas, and multiple stacked loops of proposed trails.

I couldn't, however, turn the layers on or off. Maybe I just didn't look around hard enough.

So in this respect, rasters would be nice. I could have property boundaries be a different color, proposed trails have different colors, and I wouldn't have to worry about deleting them from the GPS.

Downside? Older GPS users would be out of luck...

Seldom

#9
Quote from: PHeller on November 16, 2011, 06:58:08 AM
I'd like the maps for handhelds to be raster maps. IE, its there when you turn the GPS on and it doesn't go away unless you want it to.
In my experience, vector maps for Garmin's are much more reliable than "Garmin Custom Maps".

The main limitation of raster maps on Garmins is that you can only have one "Garmin Custom Map on the GPSr at a time.  You can enable it or disable it, but if you have two maps that overlay each other you will only be able to see the top one (don't know how it decides what's on top) unless you remove the top map from the GPSr.

You can probably do your vector maps just using tracklogs and GPSmapedit.  It will import shapefiles but if the shapefiles have multiple data types (contours and roads for instance) there could be a tedious amount of editing you would need to do.  And it wouldn't address your Google Maps export.

Global Mapper would address both, easily, but now it costs about $400, especially if you want to add property boundaries.  Sounds like you want to make fairly complex maps.

If you have trails, contours, and property lines on the same map you don't have to worry about erasing them.

I don't know if anyone here has used MNDNR, although I've seen it referred to several times.

Also, not quite sure what you mean about "layers".  Sounds like you want to have multiple transparent maps.  Trails on one, property lines on one, and enable or disable them separately.  You can do that with vector maps, but I'm not sure why you want to.

PHeller

Quote from: Seldom on November 16, 2011, 07:22:03 AM
The main limitation of raster maps on Garmins is that you can only have one "Garmin Custom Map on the GPSr at a time.  You can enable it or disable it, but if you have two maps that overlay each other you will only be able to see the top one (don't know how it decides what's on top) unless you remove the top map from the GPSr.

Ah, this is the problem I was seeing in the custom map option. If you were just a recreational user, say someone who is riding my trails, they won't want to add/remove maps and fiddle with which is on top or bottom. That's difficult enough in bed...

But, it may be perfectly ok for the design and layout phase on my end.

In my experience with basic vector importing on my 60Csx, because it was only black and white (er light green) I couldn't easily distinquish between layers. If I was distributing data to the public, or fellow trail builders, I'd want them to be able to see what trails are exsisting and what trails we need to build.

Seldom

Quote from: PHeller on November 16, 2011, 07:30:04 AM
In my experience with basic vector importing on my 60Csx, because it was only black and white (er light green) I couldn't easily distinquish between layers. If I was distributing data to the public, or fellow trail builders, I'd want them to be able to see what trails are exsisting and what trails we need to build.

I suspect that the problem you are having has to do with MNDNR.  GPSmapedit/cgpsmapper provide you with a set of well differentiated graphics for trails, contours, streams, etc.

There's a very thorough tutorial here:
http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/tutorials/how-to-create-garmin-topo-maps/
and a briefer one here:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~creek/garmin.htm

Do you have access to property line data as a shapefile for your area?



PHeller

Quote from: Seldom on November 16, 2011, 08:29:13 AM
Do you have access to property line data as a shapefile for your area?

Yes.

So it sounds like an ETrex 20 may be in order.

A coworker who does mapping showed me how he can display property boundaries in Google Maps "My Maps", but it looked like it was a bit buggy at times.

Seldom

Sounds like you may be able to get by with just GPSmapedit and cgpsmapper free to do the compile.  I recommend registering GPSmapedit ($65?) as it will permit you to access Google Maps imagery.  Might help in drawing your new trails.

PHeller

I've got all the imagery I could want. More modern than Google as well.