Messages

Read it again but more carefully this time.

Essentially what Garmin did or is tying to do is screw me but I do not intend to let them get away with it.

Basically all I am trying to do here is to warn other Nuvi 500 owners and why they should be concerned about signing up for Garmin's lifetime upgrade. 

I should hope that any of the rest of you would do the same.

The fix for this would be very simple - Garmin could just give Nuvi 500 owners a separate copy of topo 100k in the form of a gmapsupp.img file. That would allow normal updating of the City Navigator maps. Maybe you could persuade them to do this if you were insistent enough, yet also nice. 

If I understand his first post correctly, this is what Garmin did.  His problem is that it took 3+GB to install and he had 1.5+GB on his Nuvi.  If he has a card slot, he should be able to get a 4GB card for around 4USD, and load the gmapsupp.img onto that. 

Any idea how big the 500 card can be, or if it supports Birdseye?

I do indeed have a card. An 8GB one to be exact. However I am currently using that for 24K topo data and I do not want to, nor do I intend to, nor should I have to give that up to regain the original functionally of the unit. PERIOD!

The unit now has over half of the original memory space available with the street maps installed, about 1.4GB free memory total. That should be more than ample should Garmin choose to make the effort to make the 100K topo file fit. After all, they did it before so it can most definitely be done again if they want to. That much should be undisputed fact and clearly evident to anyone.

While some may feel comfortale which having their pockets picked, I do not. For those that do, please send me your address. LOL   

No raster support on the Nuvi 500, but I agree... get a card and live happily ever after.

That is incorrect. The packaging mentioned neither the 500 or the 550 only the 200 series units as having a potential compatibility problem. And my wife also checked this before the purchase was made.

The incompatibility the 500 was discovered only after the damage was already done.

Secondly they, Garmin support, had me delete the ALL of the original map files in order to make room for the new stuff, that was to essentially unbrick my unit as it were at that point.

After the street maps were finally upgraded and the unit was functional again beyond the base maps, only then did they offer the 100K replacement topo map file which now requires was well over 3GB in memory space to install. More space than the Nuvi 500 has in total. If anyone knows this, Garmin should.
 
Of course it would not fit in my unit leaving me without Topo contour displays even from the 24K topos that I have, also paid for directly from Garmin, on my SD card.   

The package I have, also bought directly from Garmin BTW, says nothing at all about any of the 500 series units and memory space or compatibility problems, only the 200 stuff and that is all it says other that it is indeed compatible with the rest of the Nuvi series units which of course would include the 500.

IMHO Garmin is responsible for restoring my unit to the way it was and for refunding the money paid for the, useless to me ,Lifetime Upgrade which is obviously incompatible with the Nuvi 500.

I do fully intend to clear things up with Garmin, in the courts if need be, my only intention here was to warn other Nuvi 500 owners against purchasing what in all likely hood will prove to be a worthless to them product.

IMHO it's what we all should do if we care at all about one another. Regardless of what anyone may feel about Garmin and their business practices, technical prowess or their support or any other of the products that they may own.

Being an original member of The Defence Mapping Agency (the creators of GPS in large part) it should be known that GPS is a subject that is near and dear to my heart, so of course I care a just bit more than most as to how the technology is distributed and represented today. I suppose you could say I'm like an old mother hen with anything GPS.

First off, I believe that there was an error in the compatibility list for the nüMaps Lifetime subscription that says the nüvi 500 where it should have said nüvi 550.

That being said, the unit should be restoreable from a backup had the OP made one, or from the data from GARMIN, with a refund issued on the nüMaps Lifetime subscription.

Thanks making this known to our users but I think you will need to clear this up with GARMIN, there isn't a lot we can do to help you with this.

I agree but the separate 100K topo they offer as a replacement is over 3GB in size which is totally ludicrous as the 500 only has something like 2.7GB of memory in total.

I have just recovered the packaging the card came it for possible use in a legal action. Lucky for me that garbage pickup is tomorrow morning so it wasn't too late.

The wording on the package specifically states only that you will have a limited memory problem with a Nuvi 200, 205 and 1200 series but it says nothing about the Nuvi 500. That is other than the wording which clearly states that it is compatible with the entire  Nuvi series and some of their other stuff like Zumo, Street Pilot series, etc. except for the Nuvi 200 series mentioned. 

In my mind taking half the functionality of the unit away, the reason I wanted this one in the first place, simply does not rate up there as being compatible in any sense of the word.

I think they could could easily fix it too, if they really wanted to however I think the real problem here is that they just don't want to and don't care. In essence they want to keep the money we paid for nothing In simple contract law, which a purchase like this is, that simply can't happen and no court in this country is likely to tolerate it. It's pretty simple cut and dry stuff really so their fighting it is really stupid IMHO. 

In short Garmin seems to suffer from a real attitude problem and it seems that someone needs straighten them out and take em down a peg or two. I'm retired and have nothing else to do, so what to heck. It's not so much the hundred bucks, it's the principles involved here.

This issue first surfaced a couple years ago and has been discussed on other sites. The original Nuvi 500 was preloaded with topo 100k and City Navigator, but for some odd reason Garmin didn't do this using two files (ie: gmapprom + gmapsupp). What they did was to bundle both maps into a single gmapprom.img file, like you might do with multiple maps on an older Garmin handheld.

At some point, they decided they weren't going to provide updates for this unusual mapset. Now if you got a regular lifetime update, it would replace the gmapprom.img file with one that only contained City Navigator, and you would lose the topo.

The fix for this would be very simple - Garmin could just give Nuvi 500 owners a separate copy of topo 100k in the form of a gmapsupp.img file. That would allow normal updating of the City Navigator maps. Maybe you could persuade them to do this if you were insistent enough, yet also nice. 

Otherwise, you could install some of the free topo maps from this site and use them with City Navigator.

Yes I think I did see an XML file somewhere but I'm no programmer and have no intention of trying to be one. I get frustrated very easily with buggy half baked software such as that which Garmin apparently is more than willing to foist upon an unsuspecting public.

Actually it really should not be necessary for me to be a programmer and do what is their job as I paid for the privilege. This is clearly Garmin's responsibility as they assumed total control over the upgrade process and the unit with their web updater program. It queried the unit's model and serial number up front so it should have known well ahead not to proceed and not to lock the upgrade to what is clearly an incompatible product. Then to deny a refund.
 
All I am trying to do now is to get the unit back to were it was before it was broken which they say they will do with a DVD. And then to receive a full refund for the useless to me lifetime upgrade product which is obviously incompatible with Nuvi 500s. At least is is with mine.

As I said, while it may indeed be a great thing for some, as I thought it was going to be,  it is most definitely incompatible with Nuvi 500's. Not if you want to retain the full functionality you had when you bought the unit. If you want to turn your 500 into a rather crappy, very limited and feature poor street only unit then fell free to forge ahead. 

Offhand I don't know how many other models it affects but if you want street maps, currently running at about 1.3 GB for the lower 48 and 100K topos, apparently now at 3+ GB of memory, as their program indicates and unless your unit has at least that much free memory available, I would advise you to steer well clear of Garmin's Lifetime update.

While I suppose you could put the 100K topo on an SD card, that would then occupy the one SD slot I'm now using to 24K topo data away, which I do not intend and simply will not do. Plus as I said to see contour lines on your 24K topo maps you also need to have the 100K topo map installed too. Not very cool IMHO.   

At the rate they are going, if your unit isn't incompatible now, it may well be in the future . As I said the total data space required has now increased to be about four times the size it was in my original unit.

I suppose lifetime means different things to different people. To them it seems to be a limited amount of time indeed. All I am saying is to have a good hard look before you take that leap. 

BTW I just tried it in street navigation, as that's all I have right now and if anything IMO the voice guidance is now worse than it was. There is a lot of useless chatter without anything meaningful to say. Lots of repeated instructions but none of the approach to turn guidance "in 300ft. turn left" as the old software provided.

Forewarned is forearmed. I'm just sayin that if you have a 500 you really do need to watch out here. 

Is there some reason you are unable to restore the maps on your nüvi 500 from a backup archive?

Does this model have a GarminDevice.xml file in it's Garmin folder?

[3GB]

My wife got me a Garmin Lifetime map update for my Garmin Nuvi 500 this Christmas.

For those you don't know, the 500 is somewhat of a compromise product in that it has some functionality for use for street and highway navigation along with POI location and some topo functionality as well. For a four wheeler such as myself it is however the perfect unit.

There a little wrinkle however stemming from the unique nature of the product that you need to be aware of. Since Garmin isn't telling you up front, I will.

At least when they came out, or so I've been told, the Nuvi 500 used map files that supposedly contained combined street map data along with POI and 100K topo data but I'm pretty sure the 100K topo was separate. Later on my wife purchased (as a gift) 24 K tops DVDs from which I made segment limited files for my microSD card from which I could choose the areas I wanted.

Everything worked well except for the fact that when I wanted to change the 24K topo map to other areas/states I had to rename files using a PC. It was a clumsy but workable workaround.

The trouble started when I began to active the lifetime update. After searching their site I found and installed their lifetime updater program.
After performing the update however my unit became mostly dysfunctional in that only the base map data was showing on the map display. That is street and highway data down to only the 5mi scale along with the 100K topo date. When retrying the update the maps, assuming something had gone wrong, the program now complained that there was insufficient room. After enduring some hassle with there product support, not fun as you probably know,  I was told to delete all the map data from the unit manually, which I did.

After that the update installed properly and worked well for street data. However my 100K topo was gone and the ability of my 24K topo maps to display contour lines was gone with it as I expected it would be. After all they told me to take out all the map files. What good is a topo with no contour data? I was then supplied a download/install on their website for a new and separate 100K topo. However when I attempted the install the program complained that there was now insufficient room. I then, prompted by product support, removed some help files and other extraneous stuff in order to free up some more room, freeing up to over half the capacity of the unit about 1.4GB. I then reattempted the install but found the install program required over 3GB of space to be available on the unit. How could this be? The Nuvi only came with 2.7GB total in which it had street, POI and 100K topo data and the memory for program code, help files voices etc.  Along with the new street update, appx 1.3GB and now another 3GB for the 100K topo that would be about four times the capacity of the device but for the map files alone.

Therefore if you own a Nuvi 500, DO NOT purchase a Garmin Lifetime update for it as it will be completely useless for you.

I am now arguing with Garmin for a refund for the Lifetime update and an install DVD that will restore my 500 to the way it was before they broke it.

Buyer beware.
 

In aviation they are talking about altitude above mean sea level (average sea level whatever that is) it's in no way and a truly exact thing this mean sea level stuff.
   
Flight levels are referenced to a barometric altimeter MESL again reading set to a barometer that has been set to a standard pressure of 29.92" of mercury or 1013.25 hPa. Pascals is just another measure of pressure but on the metric system.
When you arrive at the destination airport the cockpit altimeter is reset to the current local barometric pressure at the airport to get an altitude reading that more closely matches the actual altitude of the field and all the local air traffic does the same. It helps if everyone is working from the same page. BTW when you leave an airport you are again setting your altimeter to the local current pressure which of course changes with the weather. When in flight and flying at FL thus and so, you set your altimeter to 20.92 and hopefully so does everyone else. 

Some day it may change over to a more exact measurement that GPS systems make possible as they actually reference distance from the mass center of the earth, a common global datum.
Then you'd look up what the actual ground level is for the position over which you'd happen to be at the moment. By measuring your altitude (distance from the center of the earth) with the GPS then subtracting the ground level, you'd know your actual altitude above the terrain at any moment at any place. It's always handy to know that kind of stuff since airplanes don't fly though rock piles very well. However, it may take them a while to give up thier old pitot static instruments. Old ways and habits always die hard no matter how nonsensical they may be given a new technology.     

My OR300 altimeter was set to "fixed".  The pilot said our cruising altitude would be 39000 feet.  My tracklog shows 41000+.

Is the pilot stating the altitude above the ground, or above sea level? If he's stating above sea level, is 2000 ft. vertical a reasonable error for GPS based altimeter?

Perhaps the answer is to make the price so low as to preclude anyone from going though all the aggrivation and try to make it up in increased sales volume.

Wow.  It is difficult to project sales, as you guys know.  I wouldn't be touching on the States.

However, that is ALOT of money to fork out.

I am also concerned regarding the volume versus price quandary.  In other words, do I protect something (expensively) and charge alot for it and accept the lower sales and people trying to break the code; or sell the product for less and forget about trying to protect it, counting on volume to make up the difference.....

That's why most GPS units have the choices they do although WGS84 is what the GPS constellation uses and is universal globally no matter where you are.

Without so many old paper maps floating around there would be no need to change datums at all as WGS is already corrected for the all the lumps and bumps of the earth.
At least as they were up to 1984 anyway.
All the previous datums on which the old paper maps based were best fit spheroids that could only approximate the true shape of the earth in any given region.  

For example the central reference point for NAD was completely arbitrary and chosen due to the limitations of what methods were available for conducting geodetic surveys of the day and that long before satellites came along. It was hard work back then too.
 
BTW there is no such thing as an accurate static reference or datum that can be good forever as the shape and gravity model are undergoing constant change. There will always be a need for updates therefore there will always some disagreement in absolute positions that are based on different datums. In other words, get use to the idea of close enough.  

A former and original member of the old, now gone Defence Mapping Agency (DMA). It's The National Geospatial Intelligence Agency or some such today. People who obsess over this kind of stuff. Talk about yoiur nit pickers but they are.

I get confused by all this as well. But I think one use would be to make the GPS display match a paper map. See: http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/UsingaGarminGPSwithPaperLandMaps_Manual.pdf

I belive it to be a firmware bug so it would be regarless of the topo data source. There is no other indication of any connection issues with the memory card. Having spent my life in the electronics industry as both technican and engineer, I have developed a pretty good nose for this sort of thing.

I have also let Garmin know about it but the purpose here was to alert other users of both the problem as well as the workaround.   

If I understand you correctly, none of the problem maps were obtained from this site?  If so, sounds like a problem for Garmin, although you may want to make sure the card is well seated.  I've had problems with my OR300 when the card wasn't seated properly, but I suspect the Nuvi has a different card mount.

I have found that when a 24K topo is loaded and the unit is navigating to a destination and the unit is on the car charger the map display will freeze up. It's as if the unit is lost in some battery management loop or something and can't find the time to update the map display. It does however keep track of were it is etc is just the map display that ceases to be updated. It seems the only way to get it unfrozen is to remove the cigarette lighter plug then power cycle the unit. Just trying to turn it off and back on with the power button is not sufficient, you have to break into the battery charge routine. Only then can you get it to restart. However when you do the restart, the route and destination you were navigating to are retained and the unit picks up from the current location and continues normally. 

Nuvi 500 with a single state topo loaded from 8GB micro SD that was created from a Garmin DVD. Latest software etc. loaded in the unit. I have had it hang up with both CA and AZ topos so far so it looks like the Nuvi firmware that is harboring the bug. The latest 50states+ 100K topo and street maps data were loaded and enabled at the time too.