Protecting my products; .img files

[Picard]

This is probably a question for Indrid or someone in the retail business. 

If I produce some GPS maps and decide to sell them, is there a way that I could "protect" the integrity of these files so that they could not be further modified?  More importantly, is there a way to limit the distribution or control this in some way?

[Seldom]

The commercial version of cgpsmapper used to have a locking feature.  Because of conflicts with Garmin's latest locking feature, the entire commercial version has been discontinued.

You could always get in touch with Garmin, and see if they'll license you a copy of their compiler, but they're picky who they license to, and the licenses are pretty expensive.

[Picard]

Contact Garmin?  That is a good idea.  I could understand why they wouldn't want to release that sort of thing to just anyone, as you mentioned.  Thanks for the advice though.  I'll contact them when the time is right.

[maps4gps]

In the past, Garmin will not even talk about a license if you were interested in the USA or something which might compete with one of their products.  Also the license was $5000 (or more) so you would have to be expecting some good sales (or have a lot of extra money you were not needing to live on). 

[Boyd]

See this: http://developer.garmin.com/web-device/mapsource-product-creator/

But if you're in the US... forget it. I tried to enroll in the 90 day free trial and got a nice e-mail back declining my request because I make maps of the US and they consider this their own market. They will only accept you if you're making maps of a country they aren't interested in.

Also read the part about license fee carefully

After your trial period, simply pay the first $5,000 of license fees to continue using the program."

It appears the $5,000 is only the first payment of an even larger fee...

[Picard]

Wow.  It is difficult to project sales, as you guys know.  I wouldn't be touching on the States.

However, that is ALOT of money to fork out.

I am also concerned regarding the volume versus price quandary.  In other words, do I protect something (expensively) and charge alot for it and accept the lower sales and people trying to break the code; or sell the product for less and forget about trying to protect it, counting on volume to make up the difference.....

[maps4gps]

For most map authors, it could be considered a 'labor of love' and simply sharing the results. 
What area are you interested in?
Most data that is publically available for the USA is updated every year or less (every two months or even daily).  A mapset that is a few months old already has some areas with some types of data which are out of date. 
Thiefs will always be putting their efforts and time into steeling from others rather than doing their own work and creating something they can be proud of.  How much you might loose versus how much you will spend attempting to protect you creations I can not say. 

[Seldom]

Wow.  It is difficult to project sales, as you guys know.  I wouldn't be touching on the States.

However, that is ALOT of money to fork out.

I am also concerned regarding the volume versus price quandary.  In other words, do I protect something (expensively) and charge alot for it and accept the lower sales and people trying to break the code; or sell the product for less and forget about trying to protect it, counting on volume to make up the difference.....

IIRC the commercial version of cgpsmapper went for about $2000.

[Dickfoster]

Perhaps the answer is to make the price so low as to preclude anyone from going though all the aggrivation and try to make it up in increased sales volume.

Wow.  It is difficult to project sales, as you guys know.  I wouldn't be touching on the States.

However, that is ALOT of money to fork out.

I am also concerned regarding the volume versus price quandary.  In other words, do I protect something (expensively) and charge alot for it and accept the lower sales and people trying to break the code; or sell the product for less and forget about trying to protect it, counting on volume to make up the difference.....

[Picard]

I believe that I will link the files to the GPS ID.  I have that capability now.   The tougher question is how to do it quickly over the internet from a shopping cart rather than having to manipulate files by hand by receiving the GPS ID from the client.  The manual encryption of files is not only a pain requiring alot of time, but it removes the "immediate gratification" of a buyer on the internet.  When we purchase something, we don't want to wait to get it.  We want/need it NOW.

I agree with you about the pricing.  If you make something too "valuable" people will always try to decrypt and use it for free.  To that extent, it is like playing scissors-paper-rock with hackers and other individuals who know more than I and have the time and inclination to do so; it ain't worth it.

Further, about pricing.  I know from other endeavors that pricing is critical for other reasons.  If you price too highly, not only do you invite copycats and those who will work to break the encryption, but you lose the volume in sales.  

Re: Someone's previous reply mentioning a "Labor of Love".  It is that.  I do always enjoy it.  However: 1.  The areas I am mapping are areas of conflict around the globe (not stateside) using imagery that is supplied to me by select groups.  I have a responsibility not to allow the information I am creating from very current map imagery to fall into the wrong hands.  Therefore a "vetting" of my buyers will be required.  That sounds super secret squirrel and ominous, but, in reality, that is simply a fact of life that many of us who work in these hot zones have become comfortable with.  To allow very exact GPS files to get into the hands of the wrong persons is providing them with a very specific targeter's guide.  
Some of you will understand this; some of you will not.
2.  I can and intend to make money from these endeavors.  So, I will be charging users for my time.  It is up to the end-user to decide if what I create is worth the price.

I really do appreciate all of the input and suggestions BTW.

[Boyd]

To allow very exact GPS files to get into the hands of the wrong persons is providing them with a very specific targeter's guide.

Of course I have no idea what you're doing and what you're capable of. But how could you possibly screen buyers to ensure that a "bad guy" doesn't get a hold of these maps? That really casts a different light on this whole topic...

[Picard]

Yup.
I don't mean to cast this topic in a different light.  We are getting off on a tangent.  Suffice it to say that there will be a process whereby I receive some sort of bonafides before I'll provide this service.

How that would segue with an online shopping cart is VERY problematic; and probably not possible.

[Boyd]

Well here's my problem. You and I just might not share the same ideology, and might not agree on who the "bad guys" are. Now that you've opened that Pandora's box, this is starting to sound like a discussion that belongs on some other site.

I can only speak for myself of course, since I have no affiliation with the management here. But the maps I make and post here are for the purpose of enhancing people's enjoyment of the great outdoors and they are free.

If you're running a business for profit and selling maps that could be used for strategic/military purposes it just seems out of place in a forum where a number of us volunteer our time to help ordinary people use their GPS for recreational purposes.

[Picard]

Sorry about your feelings on this subject Boyd.  Aaaargh.  I wish someone were standing here to just tell me to let this lie.  However, you have now implied that I shouldn't even be posting on this site.  That is somewhat disturbing to me... 

I'm about as interested in discussing politics and conflict as you are; i.e. not at all.  I'm certainly not interested in discussing it on another site.  I live this life and don't feel the need to argue about it after a long deployment; such as with the woman next door walking her shih-tzu (who doesn't know that I've been gone or where I've been) who seems very interested in telling me all about the places that I've been and what is going on there.  It is what it is.

I don't decide who the "bad guys" are (that's not the point); unless they are pointing guns at me, at which point it becomes rather obvious. I just know who the guys are whom I would supply navigation data to.  They are guys and gals whom, for reasons known only by our government (whom we all voted into power), are in far away dangerous places trying not to get maimed and killed.

My products would (already have) helped them out a great deal in this area.

It can all seem very safe and cozy and abstract to those who have never gone into harms way.... sitting on their couches at night watching the news.  Trust me, there's a whole 'nother world out there, with plenty of people in it who would kill you and cut off your head if given the chance.  I have a family stateside, and I'd just as soon that the whole mess take place in the countries in which it began.

Beyond all of that though....  it does seem to me that the entire thread falls very much in line with GPS, mapping, and the technology surrounding it. There are plenty of people on this forum who are actually employed and making a living doing what they love to do; making GPS maps.  I would imagine there are plenty more would like to make a living doing what they love.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  No one is forcing anyone to purchase anything.  The market, and the quality of the product decides all of that.

[-Oz-]

As someone who is currently in harms way I will end this discussion.

It is impossible to screen for all the bad guys, however, it is possible to screen who it goes to (i.e. checking for .mil and .gov addresses) but what they do with it is a matter of trust.  Wikileaks has shown that trust only goes so far.  The goal is to make it difficult enough that the honest people don't leak the information and the bad guys can get the info in other easier means.

In the digital age nothing is secure once it is on the internet however one must weigh the pros vs cons.  I am sure the data picard has is for limited distribution but in no way classified.

This ends the discussion of the politics of good guy vs bad guy.  The topic can continue about locking/securing maps but if it goes down the road it is heading then coggins or myself will lock the thread.

:-D